2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

delete, okay I understand the point below.

I’m excluding plenty of laps, any lap with DRS is out and most of laps in which LEC was near another car he was in DRS. There’s maybe 20-25 laps total for LEC. In both the stretches you mentioned the speed of LEC has the same distribution and top speed.

What is so hard to believe in having the smallest wing and best top speed? Are you not satisfied unless RBR has the top of everything, even useless stuff like this? Your motivation to always be contrarian is very tiring.

Perez has the same top speeds near the end of the race as Leclerc. All 311-312 km/h. It's because both of them had a car ahead of them within 3-4 seconds on the back straight. Their datasets are corrupted by slip streams (but equally so, ironically).

CS98 suggested to look at Sainz-Verstappen. Neither had a car ahead for the 2nd half of the race. Verstappen was race leader and Sainz was 10 full seconds behind Leclerc. You reach the same conclusion which varies from indistinguishable difference to 1 km/h edge to Verstappen. VErstappen tended to 309-310km/h. Sainz tended about 1km/h less.

Ferrari did have a smaller rear wing than Red Bull, but that doesn't mean Ferrari would be comfortably quicker on the straight. The Red Bull is more efficient as has been the case for 3 years.

If this conclusion grates, then of course it would be proper and more thorough to discuss the fact that we are ignoring beam wings and engine modes in this conversation so none of us are correct about anything.

[leblanc]

That’s a valid point but that they are still on a single wing to me leans more towards cost savings.

Also a valid point.

Edit: after thinking a bit more, it would make sense their upgrade expenses are focused on post-Imola upgrades.

[Andres125sx]

That’s not correct.

This is a balance and your description forgets it.

Can you read Dialtone?

Vanja, won't a larger rear wing allow drivers to get back on power earlier and cancel out the 5 tenths loss on straight?

I´m not Vanja, but nope. That would only improve acceleration phase, while drag by a larger wing will reduce both acceleration and top speed.

And that´s without even mentioning a larger rear wing will unbalance the car and behaviour going into corners, and mid corner, wich will be terrible. If increasing front wing too to keep balance, then drag will literally kill you

Also, increasing any wing over the optimum will make you slower at the straight, and your competition will anihilate you in the race. Even if the car is faster this way (wich is false), it´s useless if everybody pass you at the straights, and you can pass none because of the lower top speed

They funny thing with armchair experts is, when they do not understand something, they assume F1 teams are stupid, and they have the magic key no engineer in the paddock noticed

OTOH, sensible people, when not understanding something, wonder about the point he´s missing because F1 teams are far from stupid, and there´s a reason for every single thing they do

That’s not correct.

This is a balance and your description forgets it.

Traction out of corners is mostly how you get to pass these days. Car in front has bad exit out of slow corner into straight and car behind makes the move at the end of the straight.

This is to say that a bad exit, of which Ferrari had plenty, influences top speed just as much as the wing, but more clearly, in quali you still get to use DRS, reducing the impact of the wing but still gaining in the corners. And in the race you spend more time in the early part of the straight, where traction matters, than at top speed, where wing matters.

It’s a balance and probably Ferrarid decided this balance was worth a try but didn’t work out. No big deal but it makes no sense to think that this was the absolutely only wing possible and this result was inevitable or due to something insurmountable or intrinsic.

Top speed is far, extremelly far from irrelevant as you´re suggesting. Try to pass at the race with a low top speed... or try to avoid being passed. Reducing top speed is the best way to ruin a race, and frustrate your drivers too. Even slower cars will pass you when in DRS, and then you will never be able to pass them again because of your low top speed

Ferrari was 4th and 5th at a race wich were not good for the team, not sure where do you see the drama , but you can be sure with a bigger rear wing, result would have been worse because of the explained reasons (lower top speed, unbalanced car and/or extremelly high drag)

[Andres125sx]

Ferrari has had inferior traction in all of the GPs so far. It's not a Chinese GP specific observation.

I don't know how you measure traction, I choose to look at when you put the throttle down, normally the driver without grip is going to be hesitant to put down power to not spin, and then obviously there's the acceleration part.

https://i.imgur.com/HF8eZS5.png

This is average lap in Jeddah for the whole race between LEC and VER. LEC is generally on throttle earlier than VER despite basically always braking later. So that car has good grip and traction and rotates very well. As far as acceleration goes, there's at least 1 case in which Ferrari is much slower in the corner at 3000m, but even before exit they are back to equal speed, another showing of good traction.

https://i.imgur.com/ps81JCX.png

Again Australia SAI vs NOR, Ferrari generally brakes later and is back on the throttle at the same time or earlier. Corner at 4000m is pretty emblematic of this.

Even ignoring all of this and assuming they've had poor traction, they were still the best of the rest compared to RedBull, while in China they were much worse than the previous 0.3-4s worse than RBR down to 1s worse.

I´ll ignore the comparison with Verstappen as he´s the benchmark, both RBR is faster than Ferrari, and Verstappen is faster than Leclerc and Sainz, so pointless discussion about Ferrari setup, they´ll be slower anycase

About Norris, did you notice top speed? Lower for Leclerc even with wing level they used, and your suggestion is increasing rear wing so they loose even more top speed?

Not to mention you´re pointing at low speed corners as a reference, and suggesting a bigger wing will solve that. But traction out of low speed corners (under 100kmh) cannot be improve with wing since aerodynamics under 100kmh are almost negligible. Traction out of low speed corners is a mechanical issue, suspensions, chasis and tire managment is key, not aerodynamics

[Vanja #66]

You lot are outspamming the McLaren thread. That has never happened around here before I believe

Last time was way back in 2012 McLaren is very good again, so complaints have toned down there. In Ferrari thread you now have Hamilton fans occasionally and a whole lot of Max fans posting for whatever reason they have to spam and pick badly-argued fights here

[Venturiation]

[Vanja #66]

WCC points after the first 5 races:

2017 - 153
2018 - 126
2019 - 121

2022 - 157
2023 - 78
2024 - 151

With the Sprint race points, 2024 can't be considered as good as 2017, but it's fairly close. Overall consistency is unprecedented for a long, long time. If they deliver a strong weekend in Miami and there is no reason to expect poor performance, it will be basically the best early-season performance of the team since 2004 in terms of points. And the car is clearly not in place to regularly fight for wins!

[organic]

Special retro livery for Miami. Blue is mentioned by Duchessa



Like this ?

[venkyhere]

About Norris, did you notice top speed? Lower for Leclerc even with wing level they used, and your suggestion is increasing rear wing so they loose even more top speed?

It's a knife edge balance. A car with less rear wing can still not have a good top speed number (if the length of the straight isn't long enough to reach Vmax saturation) if the exit from the previous corner is sub-optimal. The same car with slightly more wing, can perhaps hit 2-3 kph more purely because of better corner exit before the straight.

[Venturiation]

[Vanja #66]

Special retro livery for Miami. Blue is mentioned by Duchessa



Like this ?

https://i.imgur.com/fNpZEX2.jpeg

Will be mostly red with blue highlights as far as I understood. Their social media posts suggest the same, as well as the main marketing campaign

https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/miami

[CaribouBread]

Wouldn't mind a blue stripe next to the yellow and white!

[dialtone]

They are so conservative with the one-off liveries when the new WEC entry in yellow is absolutely gorgeous.

A real only blue throw back would sell millions in merch.

I’m expecting just a couple blue stripes and a blue rear wing main plate.

[CaribouBread]

They are so conservative with the one-off liveries when the new WEC entry in yellow is absolutely gorgeous.

A real only blue throw back would sell millions in merch.

I’m expecting just a couple blue stripes and a blue rear wing main plate.

Yep a full Blue/White NART style livery would be ideal but we can't have nice things.

[codetower]

From what I've read, the blues will be the Azzurro La Plata, and Azzurro Dino. The "Plata" could look realllly nice on the car with the red. If they stick with the yellow, then the Dino might look better.